Did somebody say ‘vagina’?
Posted by Abel on 17 Mar 2007 at 05:27 pm | Tagged as: Startles
Controversy rages in Westchester County, New York, about the antics of three girls who promised their Principal that they wouldn’t quote explicit lines from the play “Vagina Monologues” at the High School’s open mike night. He’d made the request because there’d be younger students in the audience.
Guess what? The young ladies concerned went right ahead and recited the offending lines, and were suspended for a day.
A freedom of speech issue, or a case of gross disobedience? The local school Superintendent believed the former, overturning the punishments after the case featured on NBC’s Today show. At least one blog favoured the latter option:
-------Those kids didn’t need their suspension overturned, what they needed was a paddle, or a bar of soap.
Now you can buy spanking-related gifts with our original designs.
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Gotta disagree with the blogger. The idea that the girls in question should have been ordered to remove the word “vagina” from a performance at a public school as if the word were either lewd or obscene is the real obscenity in this case.
If the paddle were to be used at all, I hope it’s on the principal. As to the soap, only if they can find a way to wash out his mind.
The girls in question are adorable however.
I totally understand where you are coming from Mija, but I do feel uncomfortable that the girls should think that it is OK to disobey an instruction from their Principal and get overwhelming support for doing so. I would have liked to see them gather support and try to convince him before the event, taking the back door approach. Principals and Headmasters do get it wrong sometimes (sorry Abel), but flouting their authority may not be, ultimately, wise.
I agree with Mija — good for the girls. This is the kind of thing I would’ve liked to have the chutzpah to do in school…
I have recently been advised of a site where students can rate their teacher and leave comments on any particular teacher in a school, even the Headmaster, though not from school as they block it. The students commenting are in fact mostly students from prior years. They are out of there in one piece, so to speak, and under no threat. Current students work on the basis that you may win a battle, but you won’t win the war - at least in those “we’ve been teaching boys for 150 years and we know everything” schools we have here!!
This is funny: we had a similar debate last night. I was on the side of the girls, and Abel on the side of the principal. Big surprise there
Abel is a pragmatist, sent on Earth to create order where there is mayhem. My guess is that he was the perfect student and subsequently the perfect Headmaster type. His standards are high, and ‘girls’ continue to try to reach his lofty standards, but find themselves short at every turn…and…one thing leads to another…..PERFECTO!!
OK, I need to respond to Haron’s comment which could be taken as implying that I’m a censor with a “flog them” attitude!
Ignore the c.p. angle for a moment: I was certainly not arguing that they should actually have been paddled. But there’s a bit more to the debate than a simple ‘right to free speech’ issue.
I admire the girls for being sassy, standing up for their beliefs, and selecting an admirable and important script.
I’m not sure even the most ardent fans of the play would necessarily argue that it’s written for consumption “by all the family”, though. So the performers - apparently - pledged to steer clear of certain passages given the age of some of the audience. This isn’t censorship: it’s more akin to TV programmers avoiding more sensitive material until after the 9pm ‘watershed’.
And I can see why a Principal would feel that they’d stepped out of line if they then broke a promise to him….
Well I for one learned the word “vagina” in 2nd grade or so, when they started basic sex ed. The lines they got into trouble for were not even the strongest lines in the play, and accounts differ as to whether or not they actually agreed to leave the lines out, or were just ordered to.
Quote Abel - And I can see why a Principal would feel that they’d stepped out of line if they then broke a promise to him….
Me too. if they did promise not to use the words they just shouldn’t have used them, if as Bessie says they may not have agreed, just been ordered that’s a whole different ball game, but in my opinion, even then they should have at least discussed it further with the principal, not just gone ahead regardless.
What sex ad in grade 2? I think that’s simply morally wrong and stupid, moreover.
I kinda wish I’d learned the basic facts of procreation from a sex ed class, rather than having them whispered to me in a summer camp.
It would have been a little more useful, and loads more accurate!
Amber,
Not a “sex ad”, but “sex ed” That is, sex education. They taught us about basic body parts, who has what. Also taught us about girls monthly visitor etc. Later on we learned how sex actually worked, as well as information about absintence, birth control, STDs, etc.
The thing about lots of schools these days is that there is lots of negotiation between senior students and staff. And - there is lots of encouragement for students to argue a point of view. If students go too far and decide to do it their way in spite of what was agreed, that’s when a Head has to step in and make it clear that they stepped over the line. I’d like to think that parents would support him/her when that happens.
FWIW, Rob, apparently the principal’s order came at the 11th hour, not the weeks before the performance when it could realistically have been appealed. In doing so, the principal was over ruling what had been the desision of both the drama and literature teachers to allow the material in the first place.
Abel, I could understand your “watershed” comment if the word had been one of the FCC “bad words”. In fact, when I first started reading about this, I’d expected that the word was “cunt” which would have made th principal’s actions more understandable. But the word “vagina” is one that can be said on TV at any hour. It’s the correct medical term for that part of the body. There isn’t another word that could be put in its place.
The comment that he made that the reason was that there were members of the audience who were very young turned out to be false — apparently the youngest members anyone can confirm were there were 13. The original statements out of the principal were that the girls had defied their teachers when apparently the teachers were supportive throughout. My feeling is that respect isn’t some sort of default — it has to be earned.
Also, the girls in question didn’t actually request that their suspension be overturned — their original comments after the fact were that they expected to be suspended but decided leaving the play’s language intact was worth it. The overturning was a decision made by the superintendent of schools after he decided the orginal order to remove the material was not a correct one.
What bothers me most about this is not even the issue of censorship, but the fact that by is actions (which I have to think were done without a lot of thought) this principal went a long way toward inappropriately shaming and sexualizing the female students. I don’t have children, but I know from friends with teenage daughters that one of the hardest tasks they undertake is keeping their teens from developing shame about their bodies.
Ack.. one last point.
I was talking to a friend in NY who’s been following this case. Apparently, while the girls were being forbidden to use the word “vagina,” a male student was allowed to use the word “fuck” (something which btw cannot be said on network TV in the US) in his performance. It was that inconsistancy that prompted the school board president to overturn the principal’s decision.
Obviously I’m thinking too much about this. Clearly I need to make my own blog entry.
Mija: I know as a parent what it feels like when a Headmaster/mistress makes a dumb decision, and ‘new evidence’ is certainly starting to look like he did. As a parent whose daughter was accused of doing something she did not do, I went into the Headmistress’s office and laid it on the line as to what I thought of her decision. She listened to my view of things, and whilst she didn’t back down right there, she relented on any punishment and in fact the teacher who had made the complaint of the group of girls was gone at the end of the year. Sometimes you just have to make a stand for what you believe in.
Generally though, these headmasters/mistresses are inundated with parents who argue every little discipline their children receive, and more so every day. Parents are not afraid to issue legal proceedings or, some would say, even buy their way out of a problem by offering money for the building fund etc. Heads often feel under pressure to make politically correct decisions - although it seems that this guy tied himself up in knots making his.
Your point re body image is terribly important. I have seen so many instances of high school age girls feeling so unhappy with their bodies that they are in despair. It would be confusing to them if ‘fuck’ was OK by him and ‘vagina’ wasn’t.
I guess that I really worry what happens to a school if the head of the school isn’t supported and respected. An issue like this can actually bring a school down for years. Here, just yesterday a Headmaster made this dumb ‘two bricks apart’ rule. If a teacher saw something inappropriate b/w a boy and girl, he/she was to say ‘two brick apart please’.
It was an unfortunate use of words, as he has been labelled as the headmaster who is ‘thick as a brick’.
Well, this *has* sparked debate, hasn’t it?
I’d obviously be as disturbed as Mija and others if I thought the Principal was merely objecting to the word ‘vagina’. But some of the subject matter of the Monologues is quite dark, and there *are* passages whose suitability for younger audience members could be debatable (even 13 year olds). Hence my “watershed” comment.
I agree, too, that the timing and style of the Principal’s intervention is relevant… If there’d been clear, calm discussion a few days before leading to a firm agreement not to use certain passages, that’s one thing. If the Principal stormed up to the side of the stage demanding cuts in the text just as the young women were about to go on and perform, that’s another.
And I think we should probably all move on…
Abel, it was indeed only the line with the word “vagina” that the principal objected to. While their are indeed much more disturbing parts of “The Vagina Monologues,” they were never part of the intended performance.
He was, apparently quite specific about it being the “v-word” that wasn’t to be said.
I’m not sure how the darker parts of the play are therefore relevant to your notion of this being a “watershed” issue. But as this is your blog, I’m happy to leave the comments as they stand should you want us to.
Mija: You are brave!!!! LOL I read the “let’s move on” and thought, “Dare I?”, then “Why not?”, typed something, deleted it, chickened out, then along came your comment………….
Hi, Mija
Why? Because when I posted about the watershed, it was specifically in connection with the fact that the play has more disturbing elements!!!
At no point did I say that I objected to the word ‘vagina’.
And I have no probem if people want to continue the debate. It just feels like folks are going round in circles, vehemently agreeing about the main issues, and that we might enjoy ourselves more if we were to move on…
nah, I think he wants you to move on because he’s outmatched in this debate… *grin*
LOL Megs should be paddled for the inappropriate use of the word “outmatched”
Megs: For all the excuses anyone could ever use to spank you, did you ever imagine that one could be “inappropriate use of the word ‘outmatched’”? Now that’s creative!!