*ponders*

It’s always problematic, when a label is used as a definition, which I think is part of what’s going on here. I do feel there are degrees of sadism: absolutely. Likewise, masochism runs the spectrum from mild, occasional and circumstantial to extreme and ever-present. So the phrase “something of a sadist” is appropriate. (In general, I mean: not knowing you, I cannot say if it’s applicable to you, Abel).

But then there are also various “types” of sadism: physical versus emotional, for example. I have no interest in being involved with a man who is an emotional sadist. That’s not the sort of masochist I am.

It’s just a matter of determining — if one is interested in performing such a self-analysis — where one falls on the spectrum. In my experience, it’s going to vary over time, with maturity, due to one’s health, and depending on one’s partner, and so on. Amongst other things, we humans generally tend to temper our needs according to those of our partners.

I’m intrigued by Elspeth’s idea that the phrases “mutual” and “sadism” are not incompatible.

Mmm. Well, I was speaking personally of course, referring to he-who-is-known-as-Hawk and myself. He derives pleasure (I’m trying to be non-explicit here) through giving me pain. Likewise, I derive pleasure from receiving said pain from him. So it’s mutual, and it involves the infliction of (his choice of) pain, so that’s sadistic; and even though it hurts like a blank-blank-blank I like it, so that’s masochism.

By my definition, anyway. And perhaps I’d best stop there! *smile*

And whipping Cath is most gratifying!

I think what I’m floundering with is that the concept of a “sadist” implies – to me – that the person concerned takes pleasure primarily or purely from another’s pain. That is, his own gratification is the most important thing – indeed, perhaps the only important thing.

Were I a pure sadist, therefore, I’d thrash every girl I play with to the same extent as in this scene. Which, of course, I don’t: it has to be influenced by what the bottom concerned can take (nay, likes?) in terms of severity.

So I’m intrigued by Elspeth’s idea that the phrases “mutual” and “sadism” are not incompatible. And I like Cath’s “something of a sadist” – LOL although I wonder whether that’s akin to “something of a virgin”: surely you are, or you aren’t?

Fascinating. I must read some more de Sade!

I’m taking a wild stab in the dark here, but I have a vague suspicion that you were deriving pleasure from the experience itself, as well as from my enjoyment of the situation – otherwise you might as well be vanilla, which you totally aren’t And that, my dear, makes you something of a sadist. Which is one reason I love you.

I was not trying to label or otherwise define you or your actions. My comment was ill-considered, but I assure you, I had no ill-intent. If anything *faint smile* I was admiring.

I think if I’d given this number of strokes to someone unwilling, or where it went way beyond their tolerance levels, that it would indeed be sadistic.

But with a partner who craves hard spankings? The motivation’s not to pain her but to give her pleasure through pain. Which isn’t a sadistic motive at all…

Em: Mr Jenkins saw there being a big difference between the girl being dragged before the courts, damaging her family name and her uncle’s reputation, and it being dealt with by him and her uncle directly. And he wasn’t to know that Sophie’s uncle would take the strap to her, was he?!

Puella – yes, we had a very nice supper, thank you! But I still think the restaurant was conspiring against me, because the seats were solid wood.

Abel – your description of the follow-up scene *so* doesn’t do it justice. It wasn’t merely “50 hard strokes of the cane.” It was an acrylic cane, which is really dense and painful to start with; then you made me bend really far over so that there was less natural padding in the way. Poor Sophie was traumatised

(But thank you for a wonderful week and I hope you’ve had a good flight – missing you so much already xxx)

If 80 strokes is the punishment for stealing, I wonder what the punishment is for misrepresenting yourself and breaking an oral contract? Doesn’t sound good for Mr. Jenkins…

I hope your arm is tired, Abel. Very tired. I hope it doesn’t recover for, like, a fortnight.

You are quite the sadist, Abel.

And Cath, I’m impressed! *smile*