Daddy

Now: the post below comes with a warning. I wrote it early on Monday morning and – conscious that it touches on issues of abusive parental behaviour that may upset some readers – tweeted about my dilemma about whether or not to post it.

Persuaded by the anti-censorship (or just plain curious) majority, I’m going ahead with it. But please don’t click and read on if you feel that the subject matter might cause you upset. I’m exploring edgy issues here, and I don’t want to hurt anyone…

Read my writing: behind closed doors, you’ll find guardians, uncles, parents of a girl’s friends.

Notice the omission?

Writing about a father punishing his daughter is something that, with a very few exceptions, I’ve avoided. Too intense; too real, perhaps, for some readers.

Yet the emotions, for both parties? The father: protective, caring, disappointed and let down. The girl: loved, ashamed of having let down the person who matters most. Emotions so intense; so pure.

Formal fathers have lurked over the years: the wealthy gentleman in his big house; the daughter knocking at his study or library door; the admonishment; the rarely-used cane taken reluctantly from the shelf. Hugs afterwards, each needing the other’s arms.

But that’s avoiding the issue: the girl in the suburban semi, sent to her room in disgrace, thrashed with his belt. Held tight once she’s punished.

And that too dances round the still-darker… Daddy follows her upstairs to her bedroom. Sits on her bed as he makes her take off her uniform and change into her pyjamas. Lectures her, harsh, shouting. Instructs her to take down her trousers and knickers, as she stands before him. Pulls her over his knees, spanks her with breathtaking severity. Orders her to bend over the side of the bed; whips her until she is soundly beaten…

And then… Because there’s more, isn’t there? The darkest places, that might be the logical conclusion when roleplaying such a scene – much as the idea of the actual reality is too horrid to bear…

… puts his crying girl to bed. Leaves her. Re-appears some time later; deposits his glass of whisky on the bedside table. Sits next to her. Reaches out to touch her. And then, in the false name of showing how much he loves her, proceeds to do the things she most dreads.

Not comfortable to write; doubtless for many hard to read. Yet, perhaps, amidst nigh-on every combination of girl and disciplinarian (abused and abuser, even), one I’ve blotted out for too long. I don’t view parental corporal punishment as appropriate; of course, I certainly don’t, for an iota of a moment, condone any form of child abuse. But what happens when we let our imaginations or role-playing activities roam to their ultimate extent? “Your kink is OK”, as is mine, “when adults give their full and informed consent to safe kinky activities taking place in private” (as discussed in SpankingCast 9). But is there a point when we stop being kinky, and start becoming monsters worthy of condemnation?

37 thoughts on “Daddy

  • 11 May, 2011 at 7:22 am
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    I have never considered anything between consenting adults could lead to them being “monsters worthy of condemnation.”
    I suspect the term “Daddy” is one that has symbolic meaning for those that use it rather than refers to an actual biological relationship. But you use strong words so maybe I am wrong.

    Reply
  • 11 May, 2011 at 7:45 am
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    I agree entirely regarding the ‘symbolic’ meaning for roleplayers / kinksters, and the concept of everyone’s kink being OK (with some obvious limits) is fundamental. But in the eyes of the outside world…?

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 7:52 am
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    Abel, I think that you are forgetting that all of this sort of play is edgy at different levels to different people. You could be a “monster worthy of condemnation” to many people just because you like to spank a woman, all role-play aside. Any of the “safe” role-play you mention is horribly offensive to *someone* out there.

    The reason we have role-play in the first place is so that we can take dark thing and play with them in the light of adult consensuality. And that last word really answers you, I think: as long as it is done between consenting adults, I don’t think there is any *role-play* that is wrong or over some line.

    Again: the point of role-play is that it’s NOT real. The real things may be bad, wrong, unhealthy, etc., but you aren’t really DOING those things, no matter how intense the role-play might feel.

    I would ask: what is the difference between enjoying a film or book which has violence or incest or any social taboo being broken, and enjoying a consensual role-play with an adult partner exploring those same themes? I would answer: nothing at all. And some of those books are on best-sellers lists, and some of those movies win awards….

    Reply
  • 11 May, 2011 at 8:03 am
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    Hi, Zille, and thanks for the thoughtful comment.

    As I said in the post, I’m certainly not condemning anyone’s kink – it’s great when “when adults give their full and informed consent to safe kinky activities taking place in private”. And after all, I’m the one who wrote the post picturing a scene heading into these darker areas: this isn’t about *others’* preferences.

    As you say, *any* spanking play might lead vanilla types to condemn us. But is there a point where they might view what we do as beyond the pale? And does it actually matter if they do?

    Moreover, some of those *within* the scene may find such reading very uneasy, given their own personal experiences: so do we steer clear of writing about such topics for fear of causing upset or offence?

    Tough issues!

    Reply
  • 11 May, 2011 at 8:03 am
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    Good post. For the record,I agree with poppy. I don’t think any fantasy betwen consenting adults is wrong and using the term ‘daddy’ for my roleplay daddy is as fine for me as using ‘uncle james’ for my other main dom. It’s a state of being in which as well as ‘abuse’ I also get love an satisfaction and safety. It’s an emotional attachement to a Dom in the same way that people might have a ‘master’, ‘top’ or ‘mentor’
    As for the eyes of the rest of the world, I don’t care what they think. I do my play in private (or I might cuddle my daddy and call him that at a scene event). Therefore it’s really no one else’s business. There are many kink directions that people find edgy, black women wanting to be slaves, ultraviolence, Nazi or even English invaders against the welsh (a kink of mine!), rape or domestic violence or severe interrogation. But it all comes back to consent between the parties.

    There are far too many artificial divisions in ou kink community. Let’s not perpetuate them for no reason. Don’t like it? Say so, politely, ‘it’s not my thing’. Like it? Say so, politely, ‘it is my thing’. They are both valid position and each should respect the other.

    I would like to say well done to Abel for discussing a subject he obviously finds hard- and allowing a debate.

    Reply
  • 11 May, 2011 at 8:05 am
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    Thanks, Jessica – rather wish my reply to Zille had popped up after your comment, too, as it touches on similar issues! Appreciate the comment. And as for marauding against the Welsh…. mmm!

    Reply
  • 11 May, 2011 at 9:30 am
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    I think there’s one of those celebrated English irregular verbs, that goes something like this:

    I am sexually adventurous!
    You are kinky!
    He or she is perverted!

    Which is to say that any attempt to identify some mythical point before which everything is OK and beyond which it’s not is inherently doomed to fail. It’s the fatal flaw of the infamous American “Communications Decency Act”, which tried to apply “community standards” to net material… and which immediately raised questions of “what community? Where?”

    You may or may not realize it(!), but British attitudes to spanking as a form of sexual expression are more tolerant than those of much of the USA, and dramatically more so than those one would find in, say, much of the middle east. Or perhaps this is obvious, but how do you extrapolate from this to define as set of permissible themes and a category of taboo ones?

    And if you manage to do that, I submit that the immediate consequence will be to increase interest in the taboo set precisely because it is taboo. We are a group of people who find transgressive acts… interesting, even if we wouldn’t indulge in them ourselves (this is why the mainstream media spends so much time reporting on crime and other peoples sexual peccadilloes).

    It’s also worth observing that most socio-legal justifications prohibiting incest are based on sound genetic concerns, and that there’s no problem of e.g. two step-siblings marrying and having kids, even if they lived together as brother and sister all their conscious lives. Nor is there an issue of incest with a step-parent, although they may have been the effective “real” parent all someone’s life.

    The most significant point is, to me, that you cannot predetermine what is, or is not, problematic even for someone who suffered abuse. For some, indeed, the abuse may have been that of isolation, and the notion that an adult caregiver might want to interact intimately with the “child” may be entirely benign to them.

    I guess the short version is: one size doesn’t fit all.

    Reply
  • 11 May, 2011 at 9:36 am
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    I would be curious to find out why you do stir clear from the Daddy fantasy in your writing, when other (arguably as edgy) fantasies find their outlet. Is it the guilt factor? Or is it ’cause you don’t fantasise about it very much?

    Reply
  • 11 May, 2011 at 10:35 am
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    I’m glad you posted this.

    For me this isn’t any edgier than reading about real whippings from the past, or reading about waterboarding. But then I suppose that might be something to with the fact that DLG is the core of my kink.

    I’m interested to hear DLG described as role-play- I suppose for me I don’t consider it that. The term ‘Daddy’ isn’t a role, it’s a real thing. My boyfriend is my Daddy. Not biologically, no, but in the symbolic way that someone else- I think it was Poppy- already touched on. For me this isn’t role play, which for me feels more planned, or like assuming a different persona, it’s just being me.

    I was interested by the debate that was partially sparked off by this on twitter, about whether or not it is okay to judge someone else for their kink. I’m super sensitive about this because I’ve had people in our r/l group tell me that watersports and punch play are ‘wrong’ and even ‘gross’. Whilst I find the way that some of my friends play completely beyond my comprehension, and even sometimes wonder why some people don’t aim for the joy of submission, I never, ever judge them.

    I came onto the scene at a time when YKIOK wasn’t new, it was standardized and universally demanded. Yes, there are fetishes that I don’t get- a friend of mine has a thing for being raped with a knife- but that doesn’t ever make it wrong.

    So I’m glad you posted this. I know you usually steer clear of sex on SW, and this is tastefully done. But it’s nice for me personally because it fits my taste in kink, which posts don’t so much these days.

    As Jessica said, there are many areas in which our sexuality is controversial, I like Nazi play, domestic violence, rape, age play and ultraviolence, and those last three are my core kinks. However, I think sometimes the spanko community can be a little bit blind to the fact that their fetish is not “normal” in the eyes of the general public, so the idea of stretching to condone another aspect of fetish is somewhat ironic. It seems quite easy to fall into the trap of thinking that sexless spanking in a school uniform is totally fine, but fucking a girl in pigtails and a pinafore isn’t. Neither of those things is totally normal, and if you opt into one then you’re kind of in denial if you subsequently reject the other as ‘wrong’ rather than ‘not my thing’.

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 10:36 am
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    I’ve certainly seen mainstream films featuring sex scenes with the man asking the woman who her daddy is. So I’d say the issue extends well beyond the kinky world. Is it so bad to be a bit more clear about the issues we’re playing with?

    That said, I’m a relentless optimist and don’t really find that the dark side has much appeal beyond a superficial level. I’d suck at writing detective stories for a living, for example.

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 12:02 pm
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    In fantasies, I go to places that I haven’t attempted to write about much because I do wonder if there are *any* readers out there willing to read what could be construed as ‘unacceptable’. I actually did have a go at that sort of writing and wrote several chapters which I shared on my blog, only to lose my nerve at going any further, because it was so ‘out there’. You have me wondering why I allowed my ‘guilt’ to take me over when all I was really doing was writing down the fantasy in my head!!

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 12:38 pm
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    I think the thing we have to remember is that fantasies are the place where we can go to those very dark places. Some people have very dark things in their backgrounds, and working through them through the safe place of fantasy actually helps them. Whether they act them out in role play or not, those fantasies are still valid. I’ve read some seriously dark and very edgy stories over the past twelve years of being in the scene, and there has always been SOMEBODY they appealed to. Having those fantasies and writing/role playing them are all totally acceptable things. Nobody can condemn you for where your mind goes as long as you’re not actually doing those things with minors. Don’t worry so much about writing something like that. There is going to be somebody who says, OMG, you wrote what’s in my head!

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 12:41 pm
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    Hey there.

    I have no issue at all with age play, or even the Daddy/Daughter scene. It is not my cup of tea, but live and let live as they say. However, I find the latter part of your post disconcerting (“Reaches out to touch her. And then, in the false name of showing how much he loves her, proceeds to do the things she most dreads”). This implies not only a sexual element to the play within this role, but one which is non-consensual (or non-con-con if you get my meaning). As someone who has actually had this happen to them as a child, I cannot advocate that aspect of the play you describe. For me, the mere reading of the line sent a chill down my spine and brought back memories best left deep in my memory palace.

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 12:46 pm
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    Also, if I remember right, years ago on SSS, Domino defended the right of somebody to write and post the squickiest stories I’ve ever read. There were parts of them that went way beyond what I could find even remotely hot, but some of it worked for me. Domino told the people who were up in arms about them that if they didn’t like them, then don’t read them, but the person had the right to post them. Seemed like a good stand to take, because if you start drawing the line, where do you stop?

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 1:43 pm
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    When Bonnie and I first met in 1994, one of the things that attracted us to each other was that we each had as our primary spanking fantasy the daddy/daughter dynamic. It was the core of our spanking fantasies. It has, since, broadened, but the daddy daughter is at the core still. Many of our stories posted on ASS//SSS featured that dynamic. Some of our stories slide into sexual activities after the spanking. It was a part of some of our fantasies. We were excoriated by many for adding that element, and some classic flamewars ensued. We stopped posting those particular stories, but continued with the daddy/daughter stories.

    As Jen has noted, and Domino urged, we must remember that these are fantasies and roleplays, not real life. No one has ever been hurt by a fantasy, only by real life actions.

    Thanks for your posting, Abel. It’s good to discuss such things and get different viewpoints.

    Larry

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 1:46 pm
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    Thanks, everyone, for the thoughtful, interesting and measured discussion. I won’t reply to ever comment individually – to do so would take too long, but do you mind me sharing my further perspectives having read the various contributions?

    I knew this would provoke different, contrasting thoughts. I do enjoy being able to explore here… as I, for one, certainly don’t have all the right answers when it comes to understanding my own kink. (And I know some may tell me to stop trying to understand it, but I’m the type who needs to process).

    So many of the scenes I play are dark and abusive, in one way or the other and to a greater or lesser extent. I was curious as to why I’d avoided this one in particular. And I was curious as to why such a scene had suddenly been bubbling around in my mind for the past little while.

    Maybe it’s actually just age – when I came into the scene, I wasn’t by any means old enough to play this sort of thing convincingly. But perhaps that’s too simple.

    Perhaps more, the majority of my roleplaying fantasies – whilst ‘perverting reality’ – are either actually so fundamentally improbable (or set in eras so long ago) that there’s no risk of upsetting people who could have been traumatised by similar events in real life by writing about them. To reflect on Leia-Ann’s moving comment – this particular area could bring back memories best left undisturbed for some. That was the risk in posting – hence the qualifiers at the start of the piece.

    Overlay that with the views that those in the vanilla world might form of me, us all, if they stumbled across this – on top of their lack of comprehension of the spanking kink to start with (“you beat people?”) – and you can see why my mind was, is, spinning.

    Yet is that all grounds to steer clear of thinking about this stuff, or about writing about it at all? No, I think, if it’s consensual non-consent in a roleplaying context – no matter how dark, whether purely spanking-related or crossing the line into the sexual realm. Of course this stuff is damnable in real life; adults playing is different.

    Please do keep going with the debate. It fascinates me to hear such insightful, often differing views.

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 1:47 pm
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    (OK, that comment was almost longer than the original post. Sorry!)

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 2:34 pm
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    A very brave and honest post, like many of yours.

    I WANT to say “Fantasy is fantasy, and provided the participant(s) are in reality consenting adults, the ‘unspeakable’ nature of what would be unspeakable if it were real doesn’t matter”.

    And yet … and yet.

    I recently discovered that someone I knew slightly had been convicted of inappropriate activities with a ten-year-old, and jailed. You can imagine how his ex-wife and their former friends are regarding it, as well as the local media. And while being as non-judgemental as I could, and being well aware that I had sexual desires and interests (and practices) that much of the rest of the world would be appalled by (see Haron’s recent post!), I could only say that if one’s innate make-up and interests led one in certain directions, it was pretty vital not to encourage them – which of course was precisely what people said even about homosexuality, let alone TTWD, fifty years ago.

    Is this a double standard? Well, I hope not.

    Ernest

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 6:45 pm
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    I wasn’t much of a Daddy’s girl until a couple of years ago. It wasn’t until after my baby was born that I could even bring myself to call Chris “Daddy” and then there was nothing sexual about it. But I (and we) evolved, and it has become an important and valued part of who we are to each other in the last three years or so. That is, he can be my Daddy and I can be his girl. (On the other hand, me being his daughter squicks me to no end.)

    That being said, as my baby has started to grow up, my natural inclination and long-standing defense of ‘your kink is okay as long as you don’t actually DO anything inappropriate’ has started to slip, and primarily in places and situations where the too-young are involved. I’m just starting to really probe into why I instinctively react as I do – either with a hot flash of lust or recoiling horrifically. I’m not sure what the triggers are, or where my boundaries are anymore.

    I can say for sure that they are bound up in my role as a parent. Awhile ago, after an incident in our local community in which a teacher was found having a relationship with a middle-school-aged girl we knew, I asked Chris (and he agreed) to stop calling me his little girl. I got over it after a few weeks, even though it will now always be a part of our community and of people we care for. I perceived awhile ago a threat to my child’s safety and I reacted with all the roaring lioness’ instinct you can imagine. I see my little girl growing up to be a very pretty young girl and the thought of her innocence being at risk because of some damned pervert makes me livid. (The boys her own age will be bad enough.) There have been conversations about school spankings – memories – among my friends and on boards/twitter/blogs that I’ve simply had to either drop or ignore. Etc.

    So that’s my parent speaking, and she’s been coming out a bit more than I ever expected. I can’t imagine, at 25 or even 30, that I would ever have said there is a point when our imaginary lives and fantasies become worthy of condemnation; now, I just don’t know. I don’t know, because the things I might have perved over ten, or even five, years ago are no longer completely predictable, and sometimes recently I’ve even cringed from my most private fantasies. It’s a bit disconcerting to finally understand the outrage of the vanilla-folk on the news when they talk about perverts who like bondage, or to read a news story that clearly condemns consensual behavior and understand the author’s perspective.

    But, to be honest, I’m not entirely liking the dissonance between what I believe theoretically/personally and how I react as the mother of a young, exuberant and joyful girl who, heaven help me, is a pedophile’s fantasy.

    So I guess my answer is yes, there is a point. But I think the point when kinkiness becomes condemnation shifts in the eye of the beholder and the perspective of the beholder. My rational answer is that the line occurs when our fantasies start becoming our reality – that is, when what is in our heads and in our role-plays translates into places and spaces beyond consensual adult behavior.

    In the meantime, I’ll be working on figuring out what is going on in my own head on the subject. :)

    Thanks for sharing it, even though you were unsure. It’s an important topic. (Told you it would be a treatise.)

    Serenity

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 7:11 pm
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    At the core of my fantasy life are father / daughter fantasies. Not about “daddies” who I see as appropriate and indulgent, but “fathers” who I see as loving, but abusive and inappropriate. Who love badly as it were. This includes physical and sexual abuse, not as expressions of anger or sadism, but as inappropriate discipline and twisted love.

    I appreciated your posting this and am enjoying reading the discussion. For me, as a child-free non-parent, I think what you play at in your head or with another adult is all good.

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 7:31 pm
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    But is there a point when we stop being kinky, and start becoming monsters worthy of condemnation?

    Yes, of course. But this isn’t it, and you don’t have to read very far into the writings of many of our mutual acquaintances to be pretty clear about that. The kinky/monster divide is the consent/non-consent divide, and playing at non-consent isn’t really any closer to that divide than the most playful bit of schoolroom fluff.

    Honestly, the concern you express for the feelings of your readers – while admirable and valid and all that – does feel like it’s a way of underplaying your concern for how other people might see you because of what you write/do, and how you see yourself. That’s completely natural and human, obviously, but coming to terms with it isn’t ultimately any different from coming to terms with the idea of playing with non-consensual CP. Listen to the people you trust, and they’ll tell you what you almost certainly already know: it’s fine.

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 7:40 pm
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    Thanks for more fab insights.

    I must take issue with one comment, though. Paul – you argue that I should listen to those I trust, who’ll tell me that it’s fine. Actually, two people I trust hugely were very much opposed to me posting this; I edited it given their feedback, but I think it’s less straightforward than you present.

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 7:58 pm
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    @Abel: Actually, two people I trust hugely were very much opposed to me posting this; I edited it given their feedback, but I think it’s less straightforward than you present.

    I’d be interested in why they were opposed. I can think of some reasons why someone might not think it was a good idea to post such stuff, but they’d be more about the fear of a kind of naive Daily Mail-ish misunderstanding of what’s going on, and not so much about the concerns you specifically raise, which are to do with whether such play is okay.

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 8:53 pm
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    I think concern for how other people see us is a fairly valid issue, even in our kinky community, fwiw. No matter what our inner fantasies and whatever urges in the depths of our souls to play out the role of a monster or victim, what our friends, lovers and acquaintances see over a glass of wine or with the swish of a cane does matter.

    I’m not suggesting, in any way, that those fantasies or plays be repressed or denied. However, there is a significant risk in sharing them – either online or in role play or while snuggling with a lover after – because our inner demons and our outer personas are often quite different. And, once the secret is out of the box, we can’t put it back in. Someone knows it, and us, in an intimate way they didn’t before.

    (So says the daughter whose never done anything risky or risque, unless it was latch on to some stranger man from California, of all places. Thanks Mija! :)

    Serenity

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 9:34 pm
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    @Serenity: I think concern for how other people see us is a fairly valid issue, even in our kinky community, fwiw.

    Well, yes, but it’s worth asking whether the concern is that people see us how we really are, or other than how we really are. If it’s the latter, then there’s probably some insecurity or denial going on. Those aren’t the end of the world, but they’re not positive things. I wouldn’t advocate shouting our fantasies from the rooftops, but writing about them on a blog designed for that purpose isn’t exactly that.

    @Serenity: I’m not suggesting, in any way, that those fantasies or plays be repressed or denied. However, there is a significant risk in sharing them…

    There’s also a significant risk in not sharing them, which is that we never really express all of our selves. IMO it’s the most difficult stuff between people that can result in the closest bond. There’s also the “risk” that others can’t gain from and empathise with unshared fantasies.

    I say this as perhaps the world’s worst person at building and maintaining friendships, but a friendship that can’t withstand our revealing all of ourselves – especially in a context of kink friends – might not have been a real friendship to begin with.

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  • 11 May, 2011 at 11:29 pm
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    Hello again my dear Abel,

    I just wanted to pop up and mention that I never thought you were “condemning anyone’s kink” … you made it very clear that this was about you working out your own mental/emotional stuff. (Which is the best reason to have a blog, I think!)

    I just never like to see people limiting themselves because of what other people might think.

    It’s totally up to you what you blog about. (Although a warning label, like you have on this post, is never a bad idea, and I’ve used them myself.) But I hope that within the privacy of your own house, you let yourself explore any topic that seems interesting and worthwhile to explore.

    And I know that I, for one, will enjoy reading about any and all that you care to share. If it ever presses a button for me, I’ll wander away and not read any more of it, but I certainly won’t hold you responsible for my emotional response!

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  • 12 May, 2011 at 3:12 pm
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    I have started to a comment several times, but I keep wandering off topic into my own guilt and insecurities about forbidden play, which have little to do with the original question. While others have certainly commented more eloquently than I would have, I will add this: I find loud music booming from someone’s car more offensive than reading about consenting adults in a dark scene. If I don’t like the scene, I can stop reading. There’s usually no avoiding the loud music.

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  • 15 May, 2011 at 3:41 pm
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    Hello Abel

    I only found this post yesterday in a rare moment of spare time to do some spanking blog reading…but I’d been hoping to see this having been one of those encouraging you to post it through Twitter chat. Thank you for doing so.

    It’s so rare for me to find writing that I can relate to about the Daddy/daughter dynamic so I was intrigued as to your take on it. It certainly isn’t something you and I have talked about in real life but perhaps now the conversation has started, we can. In a less noisy pub than on Baker Street though 😉

    My experience of Daddy/daughter is very different from the scene you describe. The ” glass of whiskey” suggests Daddy has drunk too much, a sign of weakness, loss of control and therefore blurred reality. And then the reference to ” the things she most dreads”… brings in the consensual non-consent and in my relationship with my Daddy it’s not about that. I *want* my Daddy to do the things he does to me. He isn’t creeping in to my room in the middle of the night needing alcohol to numb the horror of his acts. It feels much more like an exploratory, consensual relationship with Daddy ” showing me the way”, creating a safe bubble of discovery where he shows me how to talk about things, understand things, experience things. And Daddy shares things with me too, his fantasies, his vulnerabilities and questions for the world. It is like we are discovering together, perhaps he always slightly more holding us safe, and me always slightly more edging us forward with my curiosity. As with anyone who is growing and learning I can get things wrong and some punishment and discipline, the safety of boundaries and consequences, are needed. And sometimes Daddy does things to me just because he wants to but again I thrill in this rather than ” dreading” it because I trust him wholly to only be exposing me to those things that will help me grow and develop.

    As Scarlette mentions, this is not a role-play for me. It is not scripted or pre-determined or heavily designed before we see one another. It is the rambling and ever-evolving journey of who we most naturally are with each other, being all that we most naturally bring out in each other. He can express tenderness, protection, nurturing, love and discipline and I love that feeling of wanting to please the person who matters most, to make proud, and to be obedient. We’ve both described the feelings as very ” pure” – a word you also used. For me, the erotic or sexual feelings borne out of this dynamic are more about sharing that level of intimacy, that pure connection with someone that is so simply thrilling, rather than through the darkness of non-consent… (I have rape fantasies…but that would never be Daddy).

    Maybe the Daddy thing has just become a label for a relationship we’ve not found a ” home” for in the narrow boxes in our culture that we have available to fit relationships in to. He is not my biological father but in every other sense of the word he is, and that is the place he has in my heart.

    There is something about its symbolism as the most simple power dynamic there is, it tells the story of familiarity, creates a sense of belonging and a sense of place for the duration of someone’s life. But I also want the edgier discussion that asks about what a father’s role is, what the boundaries of love, care and intimacy are, who has placed them and why those boundaries are there.

    And if you haven’t already noticed ( apologies for long post ) I just wish through more open discussion those of us that are in relationships that others so readily judge or misunderstand I might finally be able to share and celebrate with all the people that are important in my life about one of the greatest flavours of love I have ever found!

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  • 15 May, 2011 at 4:15 pm
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    @Olivia – that’s an incredibly beautiful and honest piece of writing. Thank you so much for sharing it here. Lost for words other than to say thank you – and yes to the non-noisy pub suggestion :-)

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  • 15 May, 2011 at 4:36 pm
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    Olivia, I want to say thank you. I struggle with describing this dynamic because it is so important to me and I am so terrified of being judged for it. What you wrote was brave, wise, moving and beautiful.
    Thank you so much for writing that. Thank you for giving me the courage to say, “me too.” All that you wrote, it is all true for me. I have never admitted that like that before.

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  • 15 May, 2011 at 5:26 pm
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    @Poppy – that was an equally brave comment: thank you for writing it.

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  • 15 May, 2011 at 8:39 pm
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    Poppy, it is actually just a real pleasure to be able to share it with someone that understands…so thank you for listening and for hearing it.

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  • 16 May, 2011 at 3:59 pm
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    Hi Abel,

    I’m a bit late for this post, but I would like to add a few thoughts nonetheless. This is a difficult topic and I can relate to your way of processing your thoughts by writing about them. To my mind it was absolutely okay to publicly discuss the topic and you did so in a careful and thoughtful manner.

    Concerning the moral line for private play and fantasies I’m with many of the other commenters: Anything that happens between sane and consenting adults is not morally objectionable. But you weren’t musing about private play only I think, there was the question about the line for public writing as well. I can understand your concern and I don’t think that I can give you „the” correct answer on that question. But I’d like to share some thoughts about where I draw the line.

    First of all, I think it is important to respect one’s own comfort zones as a blogger/writer. Ludwig for example has decided to write neither about any Nazi-scenarios nor about any scenarios that involve young-aged children. Both types of fantasies could easily be misinterpreted and since Ludwig isn’t interested in either of the two scenarios, anyway, he decided not to write about them on his blog.

    But, as you know, severe scenes are one of Ludwig’s core fantasies. So, he decided to write about those, even though he has been called all sorts of things in online-discussions for admitting to being into that sort of thing. Since I gained an interest in severe scenes myself, I’ve started to write about them, too. What we both do, though, is to write about the moral questions that come up in the context of severe play as well and to explain our points of view to the people who are interested in reading about them. Of course we won’t change the stance of those who believe that everyone who is into severe play must be sick. They will feel offended by our writing nonetheless. But I think it might help those who have difficulties dealing with the topic because it isn’t part of their fantasies but who are open enough to read about other people’s experiences.

    This is also very important for me when I read about scenarios that are not part of my fantasies. One example are the historical real-life whipping scenarios you often write about. I’m one of those people who feel rather uncomfortable reading these real-life accounts. Since the scenarios don’t have any kinky appeal for me, the accounts often only remind me of real-life injustice and oppression. But I don’t have any problem with linking to your blog because from your other writing I know that you don’t condone any real-life violence against women and that you only use the scenarios for consensual adult play. Ludwig had a link to another site that was about real-life punishments, though. But in that case, there was no disclaimer or anything that referred to the difference between real-life judicial CP and consensual erotic play. It was the only time that Ludwig removed a link on my request because I felt absolutely unfomfortable with linking to a site where I couldn’t be sure whether the author had a feeling of respect for the victims of real-life violence.

    In conclusion, I think that it is absolutely okay to write about your fantasies as long as you only act them out between consenting adults. Avoiding all the topics that could possibly offend someone to my mind would lead to not being able to write about erotic spanking at all (because there are a lot of people who are offended even by the most „harmless” adult erotic spanking scenario). What I personally find important and what I appreciate, though, is to write about moral questions and to give the readers a chance to understand the difference between one’s fantasies and one’s stance on horrible real-life events that take place in our world. And I think that’s exactly what you do. I can’t tell you whether this is a moral obligation (for a writer of fiction it probably isn’t) but I find it important and appreciate it.

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  • 16 May, 2011 at 8:40 pm
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    Thank you, Abel, and your readers for such insightful writing on this topic. I feel honored to be part of the discussion because it is so rare to find such honest introspection.

    There’s not much being said here that I would disagree with personally. As a kinkster who has been a spanko since the age of 5, I have always struggled with what is appropriate and what isn’t when it came to my own desires to see girls/women spanked. This struggle came to a full-on “you must deal with this now”, a couple of years ago when my daughter was in high school. None of her parental figures, including me, believe that spanking is appropriate for children, so there was never a danger that I would decide to employ spanking with her. However, among the many types of characters and scenarios that populate my own internal world, the scenario of parent of punishing teenage daughter was well-represented. And here I was seeing such people (teenagers) on a regular basis and, of course, many of my daughters friends were girls. I love my daughter, naturally, and came to care quite a bit for her friends. So I had to face the fact that there was a part of me that would be aroused by seeing some of my daughters friends punished by some form of spanking. It was a difficult struggle, because I am a sensitive and loving person, but my wife had the best advice upon which my attitude is based. She told me, “You’re aroused by what you’re aroused by. You know what you would do and wouldn’t do. You would even intervene to stop something unjust from happening even if it played into your fantasy world.” She was right about me. Accepting that for myself made all the difference.

    Now my remaining, not as intense, struggle is with defining the type of Dominant I am. I have always had paternal love for my romantic partners and I often refer to my wife as “my girl”, but neither of us wants to use the word “Daddy”, as we both would be squicked by that. I think what we need is a new word for this. But I realize that is naively asking too much.

    The other aspect of all this, as has been mentioned here, is the “p.r. problem” that we kinksters/spankos have with the vanilla others. We care more or less about that depending on the circumstances and who we are, but as a spanking blogger, I do want us as a community to be seen in a positive light. And I think honest, civilized, intellectual discussions such as these can go a long way for those vanillas who are open-minded and open-hearted.

    Thanks again.

    Best Regards,
    Franklin

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  • 17 May, 2011 at 2:50 am
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    @Poppy: Wow, I actually teared up reading that. THAT is exactly what I was thinking while I was reading this (wonderful) blog post and all of the comments. Thank you. So much.

    I have just begun to explore the daddy/little girl fantasies I’ve had for SO LONG and it’s been amazing. I am constantly analyzing it, though, and sometimes the assumed psychology behind it scares me a little – especially as someone who was sexually abused as a child. Especially as I’m a college student majoring in Psych – it’s just too easy to go there in my head.

    I wrote a daddy/little girl story and I had my eyes half closed while doing it, I couldn’t believe I was digging that deep… but I was being honest and I felt this huge relief once it was written and once I shared with my now-“daddy.” An even bigger feeling of relief washed over me when I did it in real life.

    For me, this dynamic feels so forbidden and strange (and new) that I speak very little of it to my primary partner. I have a play partner/friend who takes care of that need.

    However – as it has been mentioned numerous times here, I do think it comes down to *consent,* most importantly. Also, if you have a need/want and you’re an adult and the other person is an adult – go for it. Write about it if you want to.

    This is great, as SW so often is, so thank you so much for being here.

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  • 20 May, 2011 at 5:48 pm
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    Might I just conclude the comments on this post, a week or so on, by saying a huge thank you to all who contributed to the discussion? Frank, honest, open, moving, supportive, helpful, friendly even where different perspectives co-exist: it’s discussions like this (and people like you all) which make blogging so very worthwhile.

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