Conversations with several of my spanker and dom friends recently revealed that they see a safeword used in a scene with them as a personal failure. The reasoning goes that a top should have enough grasp on what’s happening, to back down before using a safeword becomes necessary.
Something in me feels like I’d rather not know this about tops. I’m generally appalled at the idea of hurting somebody’s feelings, so if I know that using a safeword will make a top feel bad, I may hesitate to do so when I need to. And it’s really quite important that a bottom takes the responsibility to stop a scene if it becomes necessary.
When I top, I need to know that they’ll do this instead of suffering in silence, afraid to hurt my feelings.
There seems to be a sort of paradox here.
If you top, does it upset you when somebody safewords? If you bottom, have you ever held your tongue out of reluctance to upset your playmate?
I don’t see safewords as a top’s failure and I’m tryng to learn they aren’t mine either. But I never use them. Just need to know they’re there.
When playing with a new top I am very careful to give signals, sounds movement etc and it has normally been fine. But on ocassions where I haven’t wanted to continue I’ve just stood up and said thanks now that was great! Nice way to end without the drama of safewording
This is something I’ve discussed at length with my regular partners, especially HH. We both know that when I go deep in a scene then I am incapable of safe wording. Now I don’t know at what point the pain or whatever would become so intense I would manage to surface from headspace and safeword. But we have played very hard at times and if I hadn’t been so deep wouldn’t have taken it.
So I need HH to know when to stop. Not always easy, he’s not always going to get it right. And this is where we nornally split in opinion. If he went too far and I wasn’t comfortable post scene then I’d blame myself for not safewording and he’d blame himself for not realising.
And of course this type of play is only posible with trusted people who know me well.
Yes, I do feel something of a sense of failure if a partner safewords whilst playing. I think I should have sensed their unease sooner, and managed to adjust the scene / its severity accordingly before I got them to to place where they needed to tell me (and where I’d then made them ‘break the scene’).
But I know that this is a really unhelpful stance from the perspective of the partners with whom I play. I don’t want them not to feel totally free to safeword if it’s appropriate to do so, lest they feel they might somehow hurt my feelings.
Ultimately, it’s a two way thing – a top being acutely sensitive to how the bottom is faring and reacting, and the bottom being able to signal any discomfort / unease (ideally before reaching a safeword). That’s particularly true in a carefully-agreed context in which the person on the receiving end really doesn’t want to use a safeword, as that gives an implied consent and on-going link back to reality / control – when the power of the scene for them might be in being out of control and not having to keep in touch with their “real self” rather than their scene personna.
Begs another debate – is it better from a top’s perspective for their partner to have safeworded during the scene, than for them to remain silent and say afterwards that it had been too hard. I’d rather hear at the time, to be honest. And it’s important that that “it was too hard” is clearly explained – “I enjoyed the scene; the whacking was really hard; I’m glad we tried it, and it was what we’d discussed in advance, but I don’t want to play that hard again” is very different indeed to “you whacked me harder than you should have done / than I wanted you to do / than we had agreed”, and it’s easy for people to get the wrong end of the proverbial stick.
I’m with you, Haron, about needing to be able to trust my partner to safeword if he needs to when I top. But then again, I’m not really a top, nor do I have enough experience to be sure I can read people accurately. Actually, I think Nick needs to know the same, though I’ve never safeworded with him. Then again, Nick is a service top rather than someone attracted to the notion of controlling the bottom. I suspect it would be harder for a top who enjoys the power exchange, as there’s bound to be a feeling that s/he didn’t manage being in charge properly.
Of course, most people I play with don’t know my limits or read me as well as Nick does. In that case, I agree with EJ in that it’s my responsibility to give the top some signals, both subtle, and less so, like, “ok, I think I’d better stop pretty soon.”
I rarely use my safewords. One time I did was playing for the first time with a very experienced Lady. One of the first things she did was beat me to my safeword. Later in that same session, she brought the intensity up there again, and I took a deep breath to say my safeword, but she had already stopped. She had used that first safeword to calibrate my reactions, and from that point forward read me perfectly.
I loved her. She’s gone now.
I agree completely; especially when it is a new play partner, whom I cannot read very well.
I have been lucky enough, as a submissive and bottom to have been taught and reassured many times that using a safeword does not mean failure on anybody’s part. I used to push myself beyond what I could take because I had too much pride to use a safeword. After getting some experience as a top, and after some mental re-mapping of my own, I understand how important it is for a submissive to use a safeword when the play gets to be too much.
As a top, I appreciate bottoms taking the responsibility of informing me when play is too much. As a bottom, I still hesitate sometimes to use my safeword; but in the end, I feel it is my responsibility to let the top know. By using my safeword, the top gains more trust in me and is open to more edgy play. It also lets him or her learn more about how far I can be pushed.
@ Emma, I have hit that point before too; but have only gone there with people I play with a lot, and whom I trust to be able to read me. It just takes some time.
Haron:”… so if I know that using a safeword will make a top feel bad, I may hesitate to do so when I need to. And it’s really quite important that a bottom takes the responsibility to stop a scene if it becomes necessary.”
I agree with you entirely. And both sides must be able to stop the scene immediately. Being able to promptly react to unforseen medical conditions as well as supporting your point, is the only responsible course of action.
The person on the receiving end, let alone the person beating them, may not know from where, or why shortness in breath, tightness across the chest or a sudden muscle spasm originates. There may be PMT related issues with a knock-on effect. Even the most fit of athletes and dancers have to pull out from time to time. Yes of course it can be disappointing, (like pulling out of any race or performance can be), but disappointment is not the same as hurt feelings or a sense of failure.
About 18 months ago I played an intense suspended back whipping scene with a close friend, a very fit dancer. It had been ages since her neck had gone into a spasm. Of all days, it did that afternoon. She mentioned it and we stopped. After a few stretches and a little massage, about ten minutes later I was merrily (as pirates are) enjoying her winces as I lashed into her back again. Far from feeling hurt or a failure, I felt we shared the responsibility for her welfare.
One thought occurs to me though. As I don’t use an additional layer of role play that often, i.e. I play with extreme sensations for my sheer enjoyment and for my partners’ sense of exhilaration or pscho-sexual fulfillment of pushing through her perceived limits, perhaps I have a wider choice of vocabulary from our pre-scene negotiatons to check in on a variety of signals. That includes answers to questions which might break the scene or at least be totally inappropriate in a school or punishment role play for instance, and that might preclude me asking in the first place, “Are your breasts/cock anus etc. off limits?”
Just a few: “I think you’re doing very well. Do you? I think we’ll go on until five after, or perhaps a little longer. Can you see the clock? Watch the second hand. Where is it now? When was the last time you were flogged there? It hurts doesn’t it? But I think you can take more, much more. So now we’ll ratchet up a few of the strokes, not all. Understand? I don’t think you’re listening properly are you? These are going to count and you’re going to count them.” And so on. The responses to questions like these and little corrections to posture, their pulse, body temperature and perspiration give me vital clues as to pacing. I wouldn’t expect to be treated any differently when I switch.
Also It may be a little easier for me to “read” discomfort because in my daily work-outs and creative work I work so closely with people who reach the limits of exhaustion and perserverence. We understand and don’t fear what discomfort tells us about our bodies. I know that’s a privilege not many have on a day to day basis.
And when I switch, i.e give up control, it’s with someone whom I know well, who knows my body and hard limits, and within them has absolutely no embarrassment to do what ever it is they are eager to do.
After all I do this because I enjoy playing with the pain I’ve caused and most of those with whom I’ve switched with have a similar sensually sadistic disposition. In 20 years I’ve only stopped a scene once when something wen’t clunk in one of my knees. The top could not have possibly registered it. Topping, apart from “taster scenes” such as where we’ve been experimenting or testing implements, e.g. “OK, I know what that feels like, I’d like to try the ….” I can recall comments such as lower or higher please, but I do not recollect anyone safe-wording with me.
So Haron, lot of words I know, but no sense of failure, no hurt feelings.
R
I have sometimes taken more than I want because I am ashamed to safeword. Am I ashamed of this? Yes. Because how can a top trust you as his submissive partner if you are unable to articulate when something is too much? There are many times when I wished after that I’d ben a little bit bolder and braver. Because to safeword for me, is often a failure. Yet I am vociferous in my argument that they should be in play and that submissives should not hesitate to use them. As a general rule, submissives should take responsibility for themselves, because whilst good tops are very intuitive, they are not psychic and it’s no good moaning about them afterwards if you didn’t say anything at the time.
Having said that, as a submissive and especially as a younger submissive, I didn’t practise what I preach. Sometimes I still don’t. Why? Some of it is vanity and wanting to be a good sub. Some of it is liking a person and not wanting to hurt their feelings. And some of it is an odd masochistic feeling that whispers ‘hurt me.’
It’s the third feeling that I worry about.
Haron, I agree that I have been somewhat hesitant to use a safeword or otherwise end a scene in the past for fear of hurting the feelings of the top. This wasn’t always a concern for me, because personally I don’t assign blame to the top for taking a scene to a point where I need it to end. They aren’t in my head and no matter how well they may know me or be able to read me or others, they can’t possibly know everything that is going on in my mind or body at any particular time.
However, after experiencing two situations where tops became clearly offended at my use of a safeword (actually the only two times I’d ever used one), I’ll admit that I’m much more hesitant to use them now. Does anyone benefit from this? No, so it’s something I’m working on becoming more comfortable with again.
As one usually in the dominant role, I would much prefer that the bottom safeworded rather than feeling afterward that they’d gone too far. Even if it’s just one scene there’s still a relationship involved. It’s better to feel that that relationship is clean than to do any particular activity.
Also, I think it’s best to have a kind of safeword that will allow you to get some straight time without really ending everything. Sometimes it’s just necessary to know some details to make things work. For example, if something is wrong with the bindings then they can be fixed and you can go on. So, I usually suggest that the safeword be something that will allow us to communicate outside the scene. If the bottom then wants to end it, they can just say then and we can end it. I don’t know if that works for you, but I think it’s an option.
Having learned from one experience where my partner stated she wanted it to end, but didn’t want to stop because I was enjoying myself. It was not very hard play (I don’t do punishment and our spanking play is usual to mild to medium in intensity).
Now when I play with someone (especially new), I state one unbreakable rule, you MUST safeword if you feel it has passed your limits or you feel there is any sort of violation. I am not offended or feel that I screwed up if you safeworded.
However, failure to, when you felt it necessary, that is a totally different matter.